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  1. #1
    webanalysissolutions is offline Private Member
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    Default Check All Your Income Access Links Regularly - many won't work

    Over the years I've had numerous problems with Income Access based advertisers. The problem - media links don't track or become invalid.

    We recently put in place our own complex tracking on our side to see if our measured clicks align with affiliate system stats and found that a massive 80% of clicks were missed with some Income Access based advertisers.

    The reason for this is that the Income Access software/system allows an advertiser to create and then at a later date, delete media and links! So, you may have selected a link 2 months ago, put it across your websites and then find that all of a sudden when clicked it goes to a valid HTML page that just displays the message "Invalid Link". This makes checking links difficult because if you're using a traditional bad link checker it may only check for 404 or other non HTTP200 responses. The "Invalid Link" page Income Access inefficiently provides is a valid HTTP200 response page.

    I mentioned this major bug in the Income Access system to Louis several years ago and he acknowledged that it was one of the biggest problems with the system. 3 years on advertisers continue to just delete links in their systems and affiliates go untracked and waste time advertising.

    Our latest experience is with BetVictor. We're doing a massive advertising overhaul ready for the new season and found that around 50%!, of all our BetVictor Income Access links were invalid.

    Income Access - please, please, please! stop advertisers deleting links. Why can't you just develop a feature that disables or suspends links and forces the advertiser to enter a valid redirect/replacement link that will mean that affiliate referrals are still tracked?

    On another point, we've found that deep linking with Income Access is terrible and tracks randomly. Many advertisers will provide you instructions to take a link, click it, and then take the resulting btagid from the URL and use it for deep linking. However, you can do this, but further down the line the advertiser then modifies or deletes the media and your deep link no longer works.

    Because many clicks on links are all massed into aggregate statistics it's often difficult to know what is working and what isn't without going through a laborious process of testing every link and creating test sign ups.

    Compared to the likes of people like bet365, where you can trust that every affiliate link you use will work and will not ever become redundant, it's impossible to have 100% confidence in many Income Access based advertisers.

    Now we have our own systems on our side we're tempted to test each clicked link before referring the visitor, then redirect any Income Access deleted link to a non-Income Access/bookmaker's competitor to penalise them for doing this.

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  3. #2
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    I've noticed this with one program in particular - and to be honest, before this post, I thought that I was bordering incompetent when updating my site.

    This issue definitely needs fixed, as I may well refuse to take on any new program using IA going forward until it is resolved.

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  5. #3
    webanalysissolutions is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    I thought that I was bordering incompetent when updating my site.
    Us too, especially when you contact an advertiser saying "these links don't work" and provide the URLs and they reply in a roundabout way saying you must have not taken them from the affiliate system!

    I suppose they twist the truth sometimes because replying and saying "we deleted those links several months ago and none of those links have tracked for you" would be a bit too honest.

    I'll be writing a program to test all my income access links, and any that come up with the "Invalid Link" page I suggest we post the media ids and advertisers here.

    For a start, put these media ids in your BetVictor affiliate links, and they don't work anymore. We've got many more examples:
    1334
    2489
    3994
    4099
    4293
    4297
    5761
    6562

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  7. #4
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Naming and shaming is a great idea. I'll do the same when I come across them manually.

  8. #5
    webanalysissolutions is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    Naming and shaming is a great idea. I'll do the same when I come across them manually.
    Not trying to name and shame really, just would be useful if there was a thread of links to check that have become inactive, because it happens across many programs. That way you could quickly copy and paste them into your system and overcome faulty links.

    Ideally the advertisers could email affiliates saying - "we've removed/disabled these links", and even more ideally links shouldn't be deleted, just replaced with working redirects.

    I'm sure if Income Access wanted to they could program in functionality to a) stop the deletion of media/links b) provide a disable/suspend facility for media, and c) force an advertiser to put in a working URL to redirect to if the disable/suspend function was used on a particular media.

    Alternatively if they really want to keep the delete function they could put in a screen on the system that allows the affiliate to view the latest deleted media, like an audit trail. They already do it with the "Recent Creatives" link in Get Your Promotional Materials. If there isn't an audit trail for deleted data then that's a bit shoddy really from an IT development perspective having worked in that area for a few big companies myself.

  9. #6
    webanalysissolutions is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    I've noticed this with one program in particular
    Which Income Access program did you have issues with? To be honest I've seen it across almost all programs, but SportingBet were notoriously bad at deleting links, and just removing you from their "merchants". At one point I realised I'd been promoting them hard for weeks on our valuable South African traffic (they're pretty big there), without working links.

  10. #7
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    United Commissions has been our problem brand for this problem. One time, I recall finding an "invalid link", fixing it on a Thursday, and then discovering on Monday that it was either bad again or I did not properly change the link.

    When you made this post, I went back to my change log that I keep and can confirm that it was in fact changed.

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  12. #8
    webanalysissolutions is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    United Commissions has been our problem brand for this problem. One time, I recall finding an "invalid link", fixing it on a Thursday, and then discovering on Monday that it was either bad again or I did not properly change the link.

    When you made this post, I went back to my change log that I keep and can confirm that it was in fact changed.
    Thanks Shay, I'm thinking of developing something shortly that will basically get the responding page to any affiliate URL, check its status and content (as HTTP 200 response doesn't always mean a successful link as in the above case), and logging all errors. This way I can automatically disable links that are not working and redirect them to another advertiser. Once developed I'll report all missing media on the Income Access part of the forum so that other affiliates can benefit and keep ahead of advertisers that are a bit too quick to delete media and links. Without advertisers or Income Access providing this functionality/warning links will be deleted, then this is the next best option.

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  14. #9
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    Hi Guys

    Thanks for your thoughts on the link disabling feature. As Webanalysissolutions mentions, we have discussed this with affiliates and operators in the past, though I wouldn’t agree that it’s a problem with the system. We’ve included this feature for a reason, which I will explain below, and if properly used it should not create any issues.

    To clarify ?the system allows any creative (link) in the system to be set to one of three statuses:
    1) Active (fully functional)
    2) Inactive (hidden in the system but still functional)
    3) Disabled (Link no longer clicks through)

    Disabling links is an important functionality that brands need ?as temporary campaigns expire they tend to create clutter in the banner manager unless they are set to disabled. Many brands have creative inventories in the 10,000s or more, so keeping the banner manager organized is essential.

    With that being said, we make every effort to educate our clients on the proper use of this feature;
    we recommend that brands only disable a creative once there are no affiliates using it. Campaigns that are no longer valid can be set to inactive, then a communication can be sent to affiliates encouraging them to change over, then the member report can be used to identify which affiliates are still sending traffic to that link. Once the link is no longer actively used, it can be set to disabled.

    We understand that it’s never convenient for affiliates to have to switch links ?to that effect, we provide numerous automation tools that make it easier for brands to update landing pages, banner image file, etc, for a given link, so that it doesn’t have to be disabled (this has gotten even better with our ad serving tool). However, there are still going to be incidences where disabling is the best strategy. In this situation, as long as the affiliates are given a suitable time window to change links, it should be manageable. Make sure you let your affiliate program manager know that disabling links without proper time window or communication can result in lost business for both parties ?we also provide this information to our clients but hearing it from an affiliate might be helpful.

    In terms of deep linking ?speak to your account manager about getting a link ID that will not likely be disabled, such the general text link to the main landing page of the brand. Since you can deep link with any creative ID (assuming deep linking is enabled), this is the best way to ensure that the link is not later disabled.

    Hope this helps ?since our business model is based on revenue tracked through affiliates, we have every incentive for our links to remain enabled, so we’re happy to have this conversation with you. If either of you guys want to get on a call and discuss particular programs or how we can better educate clients on best practices, we're happy to do so. PM me and we'll set something up.

    Thanks

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  16. #10
    webanalysissolutions is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis - Income Access View Post
    Disabling links is an important functionality that brands need – as temporary campaigns expire they tend to create clutter in the banner manager unless they are set to disabled.
    Media can be disabled, but it must never link to nothing, or your IA page "Invalid Link".

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis - Income Access View Post
    With that being said, we make every effort to educate our clients on the proper use of this feature;
    But you've given them the rope to hang themselves with. Most clients do not understand how to use the system and have very little technical knowledge. Don't allow them to disable links and make them dead links.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis - Income Access View Post
    we recommend that brands only disable a creative once there are no affiliates using it. Campaigns that are no longer valid can be set to inactive
    Links NEVER become inactive. Once out on the web they are cached everywhere, they're on social media, shared etc. They need to remain valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis - Income Access View Post
    then a communication can be sent to affiliates encouraging them to change over
    This rarely happens. Never rely on manual processes to overcome deficiencies. 1st rule of computer programming and IT systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis - Income Access View Post
    We understand that it’s never convenient for affiliates to have to switch links
    It's even more inconvenient when no one tells you to switch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis - Income Access View Post
    Make sure you let your affiliate program manager know that disabling links without proper time window or communication can result in lost business for both parties
    Most affiliate managers don't know their arse from their elbow, so asking them to notify you of this just won't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis - Income Access View Post
    In terms of deep linking – speak to your account manager about getting a link ID that will not likely be disabled, such the general text link to the main landing page of the brand. Since you can deep link with any creative ID (assuming deep linking is enabled), this is the best way to ensure that the link is not later disabled.
    #

    This is a totally unreliable way of deep linking - assuming a link won't be disabled in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis - Income Access View Post
    our business model is based on revenue tracked through affiliates, we have every incentive for our links to remain enabled
    Finally we agree on something. Linking to pages that say "Invalid Link" helps no one. Why therefore does Income Access do it? - the original question.

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  18. #11
    webanalysissolutions is offline Private Member
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    There is a simple solution to this Louis - simply put a new feature in IA that requires a client to put in place a working affiliate URL as a default.

    If any link is disabled/made inactive, send all traffic to this link instead of the "Inactive Link" page.

    Come to think of it, the way the system is programmed already it must have code to say - if link invalid, redirect to "invalid page" page, so why not redirect to "default working page"?

    Sorry, just a bit frustrated after using IA for some years now, and many of the complaints against the system revolve around the lack or reliability and lack of transparency. You're competing with the big boys in the likes of bet365 who can practically guarantee links will track all of the time, but with IA it's pot luck.

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  20. #12
    webanalysissolutions is offline Private Member
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    Another option is for our company to develop an affiliate website that allows any affiliate to send their IA and other affiliate links to, we check them on the fly to see if they're working and valid, and if they're not we redirect the traffic to an advertiser of the affiliate's choice. Now there's a good idea Already have this working on our sites. This way an affiliate would never have a useless click through ever again.

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  22. #13
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    Fully respect your opinion here and happy to discuss - perhaps a phone call early next week? I think we could go back and forth in the thread for quite a while discussing the pros and cons of having the functionality available, but the solution you propose is interesting: making a disabled link direct to the default link - we would obviously have to review it from an implications perspective but it's worth discussing.

    PM me if you want to set something up.

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    No probs Louis, I think the problem is well defined, just depends on your business model and how that works with existing clients. Happy to provide any input you need. As a Business Analyst for a number of years I look at things from a requirements basis and obviously there are two users here but the current solution doesn't work for either.

    I can talk you through the technical aspect of checking links and redirecting, it's pretty simple and something we developed in less than a day. In fact we're using it to redirect crappy IA disable links to bet365 right now as we speak!

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  25. #15
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    we recommend that brands only disable a creative once there are no affiliates using it.
    There is no logical way for YOU or the program reps to know if a link is being used. Whether it has ever shown traffic or not, affiliates might still have links out there on their sites.

    This is the biggest reason why a single text type of link (with campaign tracking) is the smartest thing to use and serve your own banners since it GREATLY reduces the risk of the above from happening.

    There is a simple solution to this Louis - simply put a new feature in IA that requires a client to put in place a working affiliate URL as a default.

    If any link is disabled/made inactive, send all traffic to this link instead of the "Inactive Link" page.
    Similar suggestions have been made in the past.

    Rick
    Universal4

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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    There is no logical way for YOU or the program reps to know if a link is being used. Whether it has ever shown traffic or not, affiliates might still have links out there on their sites.
    Proof this morning - our tracking system showed more than 20 clicks on Coral links that we put out during the World Cup! Why anyone clicks on a specific offer that was available only on a particular game several weeks ago, I don't know, but it's still traffic and luckily Coral have a default landing page so we may pick up some referrals.

    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    This is the biggest reason why a single text type of link (with campaign tracking) is the smartest thing to use and serve your own banners since it GREATLY reduces the risk of the above from happening.
    We've made the decision as a business to use 1 or 2 links only for any Income Access based advertiser to reduce the risk of links dropping off the face of the earth. Forget using separate links for campaigns, geo-targets etc, as a business with the risk of them being dropped it's more profitable to use 1 link you know works, and 1 link you know doesn't work when it's dropped as your clicks will go to zero.
    Last edited by webanalysissolutions; 2 August 2014 at 4:51 am. Reason: clean up quote

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    Quote Originally Posted by webanalysissolutions View Post
    We've made the decision as a business to use 1 or 2 links only for any Income Access based advertiser to reduce the risk of links dropping off the face of the earth.
    WE use only 1 link per product / language per advertiser for much the same reason. We may use 10-12 banners for a given program across our site, but they will all re-route to the program site via ONE link to ensure viable activity.

    This still gives us literally hundreds of links to monitor each and every month across two dozen programs.

    All the campaign / media / payload reporting becomes worthless as a result and there seems to be a huge disconnect between AMs / affiliate software creators and the REAL WORLD when it comes to understanding how their program is promoted and the software used.

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    Kinda makes you thankful for the simplicity of bet365. One link per product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    WE use only 1 link per product / language per advertiser for much the same reason. We may use 10-12 banners for a given program across our site, but they will all re-route to the program site via ONE link to ensure viable activity.

    This still gives us literally hundreds of links to monitor each and every month across two dozen programs.

    All the campaign / media / payload reporting becomes worthless as a result and there seems to be a huge disconnect between AMs / affiliate software creators and the REAL WORLD when it comes to understanding how their program is promoted and the software used.
    Couldn't have put it better Gooner. All the campaign type linking and monitoring various systems provide is pretty useless and unreliable when as an affiliate the reality is that you have to limit the damage of dropped/deleted links by only linking in a very crude way. It's good to know other affiliates feel the same way and limit their use of loads of links, as we've thought that for a few years and thought that perhaps by sending all traffic down one or two links was a bit inefficient when these systems offer you thousands of media targeted with different tracking URLs. That said, thousands of URLs often just land on the same page anyway!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    huge disconnect between AMs / affiliate software creators and the REAL WORLD when it comes to understanding how their program is promoted and the software used.
    Time for a big affiliate company to develop affiliate software that meets the requirements of the people at the coal face. Something done right, and something that could change quickly with the needs of this fast developing industry would wipe out the likes of Netrefer, Income Access and others.

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