Concern regarding Gambling Affiliation and ACF Webmaster

**bankroll4you** · 22 September 2010, 9:44 am

Hello,

I am one of Gambling Affiliate affilates.
I'm working with them since march 2010. Until now, there were no problems with Casino Riva campaign. Payment were on time. But on the 15 July I got this mail:

Dear Affiliates,

The CPA deal for Casino Riva Polish campaign is stopping today. From now, you will get paid 25% RevShare on the net revenue generated from your players.

We also inform you that for the period of May, June until the 13Th of July, the gains generated from Casino Riva Campaigns will stay on pending in your account for a delay of about 3 months. Our partner Casino Riva wish to do a deep check on the activity of the players recruited during that period before validating the payments and the validation of the CPA’s.This change on the deal concerns only Polish campaign, other Casino Riva campaigns are still running with the existing deals.

We are sorry about that additional delay and we thank you for your understanding.

Best regards,

Why Casino Riva decided to held payments for players so late?
(2 days before day of paying?), why they informed us so late about problems with players from May and June? On which basis they demanded 3 months to verify players? (5 months overall) Isn't that strange tht all polish affiliates has the same problem now?

Few days ago I've recived report from May and June. I've got 23/30 players accepted from May and only 2/45 from June.
After sending mails to Casino Riva and acf-webmaster I've got respond: Casino Riva said they got no deals with me and told me to contact Gambling affiliation, and that I will get no money from them.

I've spoke to Gambling-affiliation manager - he told me to speak to...Casino Riva, and not to them. So it is like that: Casino Riva says I need to contact Gambling affiliation, and Gabling affiliation says to contact Casino Riva.
Manager also confirmed that they are verifying players asking them for documents. The are sending mails to players that they will get 15€/GB/$ bonus if they send documents to Casino Riva. If a player do that - he is accepted as verified and affiliate is paid form him. If he doesn't do that he is of course rejected.

My question to all managers is simple: when casinos started to verify players this way? This is the way to verify you traffic? What about all players that were on holidays (Hey, it's summer!), received their e-mail in SPAM folder, or those that didn't send documents cause they weren't interested in bonus?
Which of you, managers, would send his/her documents after getting such a mail?

I would like to get explanation here on forum from Casino Riva. I request payment for 52 players.

**Sandra_LP** · 23 September 2010, 7:46 am

Hello,

The decision to close the CPA deals comes from the delay in analysing the player value. We got a high amount of fraud players since the beginning of the campaign.

The delay of having a good view on the players' quality is at least 3 months.
That is the reason why the delay in analysis is longer than 3 months.

Moreover, we have paid for the players according to the deal we had with "Gambling Affiliation.com", AS A REMINDER YOU ARE CONTRACTED WITH GAMBLING AFFILIATION AND NOT ACF.

After 3 months of campaign, we have noticed that most of the Polish players were fake ones and were not real players.

The Polish players are incentive players with fake information.
We cannot pay commission for fraud players, unless they identify themselves or add a real phone number to reach them.

This could be explained by a high mass of incentive traffic and fraud traffic also.

At this point an investigation has been started.

Sorry to hear that when you asked for answers you have been from one side to another.
I don't know what happened, but at this precise moment, the players from Poland are under fraud investigation and we only have validated the ones who sent over their documents.

Thanks for your patience and your concerns,

Acf-Webmaster for Casino Riva

**bankroll4you** · 23 September 2010, 12:51 pm

Hello!
I've already sent 2 mails regarding my situation to you, I never received an answer or compromise offer.
I demand any proof from you showing that those players were cheating, copy of reports about my players, and infos about payment done to Gambling Affiliation for these players.
As I've mentioned last time, fact that players didn't sent his documents to get 15 free isn't a proof that he is "fraud".
No other aff.program, only you, uses that way to verify traffic.

**Former Member 14** · 27 September 2010, 11:26 pm

Originally Posted by ACF-Webmaster

After 3 months of campaign, we have noticed that most of the Polish players were fake ones and were not real players.

The Polish players are incentive players with fake information.

We cannot pay commission for fraud players, unless they identify themselves or add a real phone number to reach them.

Have any of these players deposited?

Originally Posted by ACF-Webmaster

This could be explained by a high mass of incentive traffic and fraud traffic also.

What proof do you have that this is fraud traffic?

Cheers

Dave

**bankroll4you** · 28 September 2010, 1:17 pm

SHAME! Im trying to contact Jean since few days - no answer.
I have contacted today LEO ( Casino Riva manager) he told me that he is not responsible for that case and told me to contact GA.
I contacted his boss Alex, and he told me again that they are not going to pay for players and I have to contact GA. I asked them to agree any compromise in this case, I asked him few times to give me any PROOFS in case players were fraud and this is his reply ( copy from MSN)

User: Alex Poker770 say:
WE WILL NOT PAY AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN FRAUD PLAYER
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN
User: [email protected] (E-mail Address Not Verified) say:
PROOFS PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
User: Alex Poker770 say:
WE DON T need to proof
i told you all the cases

It seems that ACF can refuse to pay to anyone without any evidence.
Why then ACF is a platinum sponsor on this forum??? is it because they paid fee to be PLATINUM SPONSOR here???

I dont reccomend working with this thieves!!!

**Sandra_LP** · 4 October 2010, 9:19 am

Hello,

We have identified auto-incentive which is not accepted in our TC and can be detected by analysing the affiliate's website, the quantity of players, followed by the number of deposits, the netgaming, the computer serial number, the method of payment of those players.
Unfortunately, this information remains confidential and can only be shared "results" to make it public, by the affiliate.
ACF ensure to secure all informations from our partners, which is logic for an affiliation platform.
We've always kept a basic agreement rule with GA, which is to check the players before any payment.

You have contracted with Gambling affiliation, please contact them for any futher information, as you are not subscribed to ACF plat-form.

If players identify themselves after six months (less or more..) we will pay them according to the TC set up during the period of the deal. You can be sure that we have also tested on other websites as Fulltilt,
Pokerstars, or even Party Poker, and all operator/plat-form are requesting the same conditions.

ACF informed more than a month ago changes of TC in advance to GA, our TC are now based on revshare commission.
According to our explanations, could you please let us know what you consider as SCAM here, Gambling affiliation ???.
We hope that we have answered your questions once again.

ACF-Webmaster for Casino Riva

**bankroll4you** · 6 October 2010, 11:01 am

Hello

Well the first case is why did you finally answer after I pressured one of your managers Alex, if You are the Platinum sponsor of this forum ? I still did not received satisfying answer from You, and I still want some kind of a report with proofs that will show that traffic of my Polish players might be fraudalent ( it is suspicious that in one moment every Polish affiliate has the same problem that I do, and it is more suspicious because in the last few months there was no problems with any of the Polish players, but then in May I got payed for 75% of my players and then in June only for 5%.) So is it not interesting that if I had the same traffic in last few months suddenly you started saying that are my players are not real ?

Why you are still sending me to GA if it is your decision that you will not pay me and the GA is only third part of this case?

**Sandra_LP** · 8 October 2010, 1:36 am

Hello

As mentioned on our previous reply, please note that your contract is with Gambling Affiliation, not with ACF nor Casino Riva.
We cannot divulge our reports to you as there is a confidentiality clause in our agreement. However, I am sure Gambling Affiliation can give you a detailed report on your players.

What we can say is that due to the high rates of fraudulent activity we started in May asking for proof of ID from every single Polish player. If the players you brought have sent proof of ID they will be paid. Players that did not send a proof of ID will not be paid. That condition was agreed between ACF and Gambling Affiliation. It is important to note that a check is being made every month to take into account the players that have sent their documents. So you may still receive payment from your players. Furthermore, from July 15th no CPA will be paid to Polish players.

We do want to make things clearer for the affiliates coming from Gambling Affiliation but we are are limited by the amount of information we can make public. Please do contact Gambling Affiliation for more details on your specific case, we are sure they can help you.

Do not hesitate to contact us should you have any questions.

Best Regards

ACF-Webmaster

**GFPC** · 9 October 2010, 2:42 pm

I am not familiar with this particular instance but I have read this on various forums. I hope it gets sorted.

I seem to be having issues with ACF-Webmasters as well and will be posting here shortly and asking for mediation from GAU should it be needed.

**bankroll4you** · 13 October 2010, 7:37 am

Originally Posted by ACF-Webmaster

Hello

As mentioned on our previous reply, please note that your contract is with Gambling Affiliation, not with ACF nor Casino Riva.
We cannot divulge our reports to you as there is a confidentiality clause in our agreement. However, I am sure Gambling Affiliation can give you a detailed report on your players.

What we can say is that due to the high rates of fraudulent activity we started in May asking for proof of ID from every single Polish player. If the players you brought have sent proof of ID they will be paid. Players that did not send a proof of ID will not be paid. That condition was agreed between ACF and Gambling Affiliation. It is important to note that a check is being made every month to take into account the players that have sent their documents. So you may still receive payment from your players. Furthermore, from July 15th no CPA will be paid to Polish players.

We do want to make things clearer for the affiliates coming from Gambling Affiliation but we are are limited by the amount of information we can make public. Please do contact Gambling Affiliation for more details on your specific case, we are sure they can help you.

Do not hesitate to contact us should you have any questions.

Best Regards

ACF-Webmaster

Hi
When it comes to the reports I've been contacting twice...they promises me those and I'm still waiting.
This isn't acceptable to require from every player to send his documents, I understand when it comes to credit card deposits or withdrawals but NOT from every player.
Because of they "verify" method I've lost payment for 52 players.
This isn't acceptable - I haven't seen an affiliate program using method like you.

**GFPC** · 13 October 2010, 4:22 pm

They are a pathetic program. And rip off affiliates we all know this. Axe them!

**Betpartners** · 13 October 2010, 4:54 pm

Wow Steve that was a jump from i'm having issues with them to they are a pathetic program

i said it once, will say it again, nice to have you back.

For the record i promote acf and have to date no issues with them at all.

That aside

Does this not seem like a grey area, the OP went through Gambling Affiliation it seems and not direct to the program direct, Gambling Affiliation from what i can understand are not assisting the OP and so he is being forced to go direct to acf-webmaster.

So who is responsible for this affiliate? this would apply i suppose to all third party affiliate programs as an example income access and so on.

As an affiliate if you go through a third party is it not your own responsibility for not going direct or does the the actual program have an obligation to pick up the pieces?

Who is your contract with? is it with the third party or the program? i wonder what the law would say on this.

**GFPC** · 13 October 2010, 5:39 pm

Hiya!!

Actually it is rather inappropriate for me to jump in on this thread with own personal vendetta and ill feeling about the program. For that I apologies!

I should post a new thread with my own personal issue with them regarding shaving of affiliate earnings.

That said and to answer your question - I deal directly with them on a rev share account. I do not use third party systems - I always go direct.

I may post my issues with them here in another thread - but it would be such a long post I may wait and see if the issue is resolved over at CAP.

I would be happy to share with you though everything including my stats and proof and what not for your own information if your interested.

I am just sick and tired (no mercy) of programs hurting us affiliates its getting out of hand.

But its not my thread so I apologies to the OP.

Originally Posted by Betpartners

Wow Steve that was a jump from i'm having issues with them to they are a pathetic program

i said it once, will say it again, nice to have you back.

For the record i promote acf and have to date no issues with them at all.

That aside

Does this not seem like a grey area, the OP went through Gambling Affiliation it seems and not direct to the program direct, Gambling Affiliation from what i can understand are not assisting the OP and so he is being forced to go direct to acf-webmaster.

So who is responsible for this affiliate? this would apply i suppose to all third party affiliate programs as an example income access and so on.

As an affiliate if you go through a third party is it not your own responsibility for not going direct or does the the actual program have an obligation to pick up the pieces?

Who is your contract with? is it with the third party or the program? i wonder what the law would say on this.

**Betpartners** · 13 October 2010, 5:47 pm

I will pop over to CAP and read through it mate, anyway i was not bothered about your comments, it just made me laugh how it jumped from one statement to the other that was all.

No my question is specifically in relation to who's responsibility is this OP's complaint, is it the third parties or the program direct, if it is the programs direct then whats the point of third party affiliate programs if they have no responsibility.

Just curious as to what my fellow members here think on this.

**Sandra_LP** · 14 October 2010, 8:37 am

Hi,

I am sure you can understand that we cannot be held responsible if GA does not give you your reports. We have given them all reports several weeks ago.
I inform you that asking for player's identification is a standard procedure in the business when talking about fraud/incentive suspicion. If your players are real players you do not have anything to worry about.

I remind you that you may still receive payment for your players, a recheck is being made often.

GA should also be replying to these posts as you are their direct affiliate. We are trying to offer you the best support we can in this situation.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Our best regards,

**Sandra_LP** · 14 October 2010, 8:40 am

Originally Posted by bankroll4you

Hi
When it comes to the reports I've been contacting twice...they promises me those and I'm still waiting.
This isn't acceptable to require from every player to send his documents, I understand when it comes to credit card deposits or withdrawals but NOT from every player.
Because of they "verify" method I've lost payment for 52 players.
This isn't acceptable - I haven't seen an affiliate program using method like you.

Hi,

I am sure you can understand that we cannot be held responsible if GA does not give you your reports. We have given them all reports several weeks ago.
I inform you that asking for player's identification is a standard procedure in the business when talking about fraud/incentive suspicion. If your players are real players you do not have anything to worry about.

I remind you that you may still receive payment for your players, a recheck is being made often.

GA should also be replying to these posts as you are their direct affiliate. We are trying to offer you the best support we can in this situation.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Our best regards,

**thepokerkeep** · 14 October 2010, 9:01 am

I agree with this point...

GA should also be replying to these posts as you are their direct affiliate. We are trying to offer you the best support we can in this situation.

Gambling Affiliation definitely needs to be involved in this discussion. Where are they anyway?

**Anthony** · 14 October 2010, 10:54 am

I sent a note to Gambling Affiliation directing them to the thread.

**GFPC** · 14 October 2010, 5:48 pm

I would strongly also suggest Acf- Webmasters terms and conditions be looked into at some point. They are predatory.

**bankroll4you** · 15 October 2010, 3:43 pm

Hello,

Let's start from the fact that I've just received report from GA regarding my players. There isn't any info in it, besides date of signup and deposit. I've demanded FULL report from you and any proof that my players are fraud as you keep stating.
You're trying to hide mentioning some paragraphs from your poor TC's and keep telling me you can't give me more details - if you accuse me of cheating - prove me it!

Your tactics is simple - you send me to GA and you know that they are just intermediary between me and you. All decisions were made by YOU, so it's natural that if you didn't paid GA for players, they won't pay me - and you keep sending me to them.

Your way of verifying traffic is unacceptable for me and probably all people on this forum. I understand that you can require docs when it comes to credit card deposit or withdrawal. But not all players will send their docs when you offer them bonus - this is simple. As I've mentioned before:
1) There were holidays
2) Most of these e-mails surely hit spam folders
3) Many of people won't send their documents cause that will be suspicous that somebody ask for them and offers money! Player isn't obliged to send you anything if he want and I bet some of players just ignored those e-mails.

My payout shouldn't depend on UNAWARE/WILLING/UNWILLING players! If you do that kind of veryfing players affiliate will probably get only a part of his earnings - not even close to 100%. I've lost 25% in May, 95% (!!!) in June.

That difference between months is super suspicious. I think that proves one thing - many players send their ID's in May, this is a great proof that my traffic was OK. You did a "great job" - saved nice sum of money on affiliates, well done.

Isn't that strange that during last few months I never had any traffic problems? I think that also proves that my traffic was OK. By your absurd verifying you can earn more money on your affiliates - cuttig their earnings. I know I'm not only one affiliate like that. I've already spoke with few people but they don't have courage to start fighting with you to get their HARD EARNED MONEY!

At the start I've sent you few mails, spoke with few managers. All people from your company were ingnoring me, and one EVEN TREATENED ME to stop posting here, cause he will start posting "bad" posts about me.

After the case started to get a bit louder in industry you suddenly shoved some interest. If I wouldn't post this on forums - You would even bother to answer me I guess, just keep ignoring as you did. I've offered you few times to make some kind of compromise with me and you also ignored that. Any self-respecting aff. program would try to do compromise and you didn't even started to try...

I feel cheated by you. Some time has passed. As you're not interested in making any kind of agreement with me I decided as follows:

As I didn't got payment for my 52 players - I will wait next 3 working days and give you one last chance to pay me. After that I will be forced to inform institutions that will hopefully help me.
I will send official complaint to Lotteries and Gaming Authority and eCorga. I will also run a site explaining how "nice" you treat your affiliates.

Have a nice day!

Bankroll4you

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