Progressive Jackpot won - negative earnings ?! (Betsson Games)

**christianwebber** · 21 June 2012, 9:58 am

Hello to all Members of GPWA,

last month i have had a progressive jackpot winner at betsson (games), the Girl won 487.000 Euro .... see here: about.betsson.com/de/jackpot-in-hohe-von-e-487-49679-gewonnen/

this player was refer by me to betsson. Now i have a question:

Is it right that betsson calculate this jackpot inside my affiliate reports ? I have had before a nice earning, because of the progressiv jackpot it turned into a negative earning.

In my option this jackpot (progressiv jackpot) was allready paid by every round where the players has bet ( a little jackpot fee like 0,1% ) , so normally this should not be into my revenue earnings, right ??

*sorry for my english, i know its not the best one...

thanks

Juergen

**iGamingWriter** · 22 June 2012, 9:42 am

Hey Juergen - unfortunately for you it is correct.

If you think about the opposite situation where are player lose playing a progressive game, the casino has to put some of the revenue they generate into the progressive jackpot, yet you would still get paid on the full amount the player lost. So if you get paid on the full amount when you players lose, it's logical that you're not when your players win a progressive jackpot it's counted negatively in your stats.

If i remember correctly Betsson have negative carry over, so that win will keep counting against you month after month? If so you no longer have any incentive to continue promoting them as it's unlikely you're going to generate enough revenue for them to balance out that win and as such you can't earn any money with them any time in the near future. If this is the case i'd talk to your AM and see if you can get that player removed from your stats and if you can't, i'd find somewhere else to promote.

**Muppet** · 27 June 2012, 7:02 pm

I disagree thepogg. I don't know specifically about Betsson, but most Microgaming and other many programs subtract "progressive contributions" from your revenue before commission is calculated. When a player wins a progressive jackpot, the casino pays the player nothing apart from the previously accumulated pool which is commonly shared across multiple casinos and paid for by the players and the affiliates. It costs the casino nothing apart from possibly some kind of fee they pay to participate if it is pooled. If it is not pooled and they have their own jackpots then they are fronting up the initial seed money then the rest is paid by players and affiliates. Ask an affiliate manager and they will all tell you that they love it when a player wins a pooled progressive at their casino as there is a chance that the player will play some of it back. This is pure profit for the casino as it transfers money from players to the casino (sometimes from players at other casinos obviously). This is also good for an affiliate if you referred the winner.

The game in question was Alice's Wonderland by Ash Gaming. It is available at many different casinos but I don't know if the jackpot is shared across them all.

Lets look at Affiliate Lounge's terms:
https://www.affiliatelounge.com/terms-of-use/

“Net Revenue” means:
• in relation to sportsbook, casino, bingo and scratch: all monies received by the Company from New Customers in relation to placed bets/casino activites less (a) monies paid out to New Customers as winnings, (b) bonus and jackpot contribution payouts, (c) administration fees, (d) fraud costs, (e) charge-backs, (f) returned stakes and (g) monies paid out as duties or taxes;

Bingo. Affiliate Lounge is already charging the affiliate for the player's contributions to the jackpot pool. Any players that were not referred by affiliates were paying it as they played. The winnings should not be subtracted from his commission. How many times do they expect to be paid for the same thing?

**ogpaper** · 27 June 2012, 7:45 pm

Hi Juergen,

Please post an update of your situation regarding the progressive jackpot.

I am considering increasing AL's exposure, but if the progressive jackpot does affect you negatively - I would certainly pull all their brands out. It would be insane if they put you on negative because of progressive win.

**iGamingWriter** · 28 June 2012, 1:40 am

Originally Posted by Muppet

I disagree thepogg. I don't know specifically about Betsson, but most Microgaming and other many programs subtract "progressive contributions" from your revenue before commission is calculated. When a player wins a progressive jackpot, the casino pays the player nothing apart from the previously accumulated pool which is commonly shared across multiple casinos and paid for by the players and the affiliates. It costs the casino nothing apart from possibly some kind of fee they pay to participate if it is pooled. If it is not pooled and they have their own jackpots then they are fronting up the initial seed money then the rest is paid by players and affiliates. Ask an affiliate manager and they will all tell you that they love it when a player wins a pooled progressive at their casino as there is a chance that the player will play some of it back. This is pure profit for the casino as it transfers money from players to the casino (sometimes from players at other casinos obviously). This is also good for an affiliate if you referred the winner.

The game in question was Alice's Wonderland by Ash Gaming. It is available at many different casinos but I don't know if the jackpot is shared across them all.

Lets look at Affiliate Lounge's terms:
https://www.affiliatelounge.com/terms-of-use/

Bingo. Affiliate Lounge is already charging the affiliate for the player's contributions to the jackpot pool. Any players that were not referred by affiliates were paying it as they played. The winnings should not be subtracted from his commission. How many times do they expect to be paid for the same thing?

That's a very good point and one i hadn't considered - if they are removing jackpot contributions upfront (at point of play) from the affiliate then of course they can't then remove them again when the jackpot is won. You've already paid your part of the jackpot! My assumption had been that it was the other way round and clearly i was wrong. Thanks for catching that one Muppet!

**universal4** · 28 June 2012, 4:49 pm

We have had the progressive jackpot discussion here many times, and not all properties treat the contributions or revenue from winners in the same way.

If in fact they do decudt the win in the above manner, that is just one more reason not to promote them.

Rick
Universal4

**Muppet** · 28 June 2012, 7:55 pm

I've checked the terms at Affiliate Lounge and they do not mention progressive winnings at all. So there is no real way for an affiliate to know what will happen in that case until it happens. Now we know I guess.

**christianwebber** · 28 June 2013, 12:51 am

Originally Posted by universal4

If in fact they do decudt the win in the above manner, that is just one more reason not to promote them.

One of the Arguments from Affiliatelounge was the case of the no negative carryover ( the woman won on the 30th )... and they did not carryover anything.

So for me its ok, i will promote them again.

Greetings

Juergen

**SlotsAff** · 28 June 2013, 4:54 am

Well, in my experience, progressive jackpots should not be deducted from your earnings. These are the things that need to be checked before working with new casinos in my opinion.

Anyway Juergen, you can write a new article about that on your site and reaps the rewards hopefully

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